Pickett and Cody Johnson Transferring

[GoRamblers]

Don't forget Devin Hill.

Takes one hell of a coach to turn a player off of basketball completely...

[ahunte1]

Don't forget Devin Hill.

Takes one hell of a coach to turn a player off of basketball completely...

Same thing happened to Cully Payne!

[ahunte1]

If you combine the deliberate/de facto run-offs (Brito, Stanley, Kadima, Kindred, Gac, Adams, Neary, Winborne, etc.) with the transfers/back-outs (C. Payne, Q. Payne, Williams, Stalyga, Johnson, Pickett), it's a disturbing pattern.

That is a long list. Interesting that four of them were guys who missed (or were going to miss) full seasons with injuries: Stanley, Kody Williams, Gac, Pickett.

[GoRamblers]

Don't forget Devin Hill.

Takes one hell of a coach to turn a player off of basketball completely...

Same thing happened to Cully Payne!

Are we sure that's what happened with him? Seems just as likely that no school wanted him after he had transferred 15 times already.

[ahunte1]

63 - I followed your Kody Williams link, but I didn't see him listed on that school's roster or in the stats. Any idea if he played?

[lusuperfan]

There are a multitude of reasons that players transfer: homesickness, playing time, personality conflicts w/ coach(es), lack of winning, uncomfortable with the direction of program, don't like the school, life event (family illness/financial issues), coaching change, recruiting changes (new recruit at your position), uncomfortable with culture, etc. Most, but not all, of the reasons go back to the coach. Some of the possibilities can be eliminated when you find out where the player goes. If Johnson and Pickett go to schools farther away from where they're from, you can eliminate a few of the non-coaching reasons, and if they go to places where they're going to be stuck behind a higher-profile recruit, you can eliminate others. Then you're down to pure issues with the coach.

If you combine the deliberate/de facto run-offs (Brito, Stanley, Kadima, Kindred, Gac, Adams, Neary, Winborne, etc.) with the transfers/back-outs (C. Payne, Q. Payne, Williams, Stalyga, Johnson, Pickett), it's a disturbing pattern.

Winborne came and left under Whitesell. I also don't recall us ever having Stalyga in our program. Volleyball doesn't count for men's basketball. But the current Porter Moser scorecard right now is:

Whitesell recruits who left (8):
1. Brito
2. Stanley
3. Kadima
4. Kindred
5. Gac
6. Adams
7. Neary
8. Colin Beatty (recruited by Whitesell, signed LOI, never came)

Moser recruits who left (6):
9. C. Payne
10. Q. Payne
11. K. Williams
12. Johnson
13. Pickett
14. Hill

14 players in less than 3 seasons. That has to be abnormal even in the current state of college basketball. And of course, the Moser list could still grow- I withheld both Tanner Williams and Jeremy King for now.

[GoRamblers]

I withheld both Tanner Williams and Jeremy King for now.

I get that Tanner is up in the air because of his health (though we've all heard that he'll never play basketball again). but do you have insider information about King that you'd like to share with the class?

[lusuperfan]

I withheld both Tanner Williams and Jeremy King for now.

I get that Tanner is up in the air because of his health (though we've all heard that he'll never play basketball again). but do you have insider information about King that you'd like to share with the class?

Other than the speculation previously in this thread that King might be looking for an out too.

I also want to provide a caveat to my previous post-

1.) Yes no matter who we bring in as the coach, some players will leave the program. I'm totally fine with this. Some kids pick a school for basketball first, academics second. If they are upset with playing time, style, or other basketball reasons, then they should leave without it being held against the coach.
2.) Some of those matters, Moser's hands were tied and they had to leave the program due to "other non-basketball reasons"
3.) But in less than 3 calendar years (we introduced PM as head coach on April 6, 2011), PM has seen more players leave than he has the ability to give scholarships too. IMO, that's a few too many for it not to be a bad mark on the head coach and our program.

[Rambler63]

63 - I followed your Kody Williams link, but I didn't see him listed on that school's roster or in the stats. Any idea if he played?

I suppose he didn't actually play-- my point was the transfer itself. And yes, I forgot Devin Hill... wouldn't be surprised if I forgot someone else also. You can quibble about whether any of the players who left were "worthy" of being on the Loyola roster all you want, but when you're getting into 12+ players leaving in less than three years (Moser's hire date was April 5, 2011), you're talking about an entire roster. At some point the sour grapes/"he wasn't good enough anyway" excuses start to become tiresome--- especially when you've got no point guard (2011-12), key injuries, or only seven or eight scholarship players available. Would it be preferable to run everyone off, forfeit every game, and wait until you have a full roster of players "worthy" or "good enough" to sit on the bench?

[swellafelon]

Does anybody else think Loyola should Make Room for Daddy?