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 Post subject: Tourney and A10 v Valley
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:05 am 
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I think we can all agree that the A10 is stronger conference than the valley top to bottom. We can argue should the Ramblers have moved, but no turning back now.

My concern is this: Did we exchange a 1 bid conference for a 1-2 bid conference?
Both Drake and VCU were 12 seeds; Dayton would have been in the NIT but chose not to play postseason, Bradley played in it.

So...1 bid for both leagues and 1 NIT bid for both leagues. Given the "strength" of the A10, I would have expected more.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:44 am 
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Rambling0101 wrote:
I think we can all agree that the A10 is stronger conference than the valley top to bottom. We can argue should the Ramblers have moved, but no turning back now.

My concern is this: Did we exchange a 1 bid conference for a 1-2 bid conference?
Both Drake and VCU were 12 seeds; Dayton would have been in the NIT but chose not to play postseason, Bradley played in it.

So...1 bid for both leagues and 1 NIT bid for both leagues. Given the "strength" of the A10, I would have expected more.


By most matrices, the A10 is only a slightly better and more successful conference than the MVC. The majority schools in the A10, however, fit better with the type of school Loyola is--i.e., private, catholic, urban and more distinguished academically. So for the latter reason, I think the move was a good one.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:55 am 
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Still interesting to me to know the dynamics of this move....Was it motivated from the top for reasons of getting more students from a larger East Cost population?, Was it motivated by the Jesuit community wanting to be in a conference with more Jesuit schools.? Was it motivated by the Athletic Department hoping for more bids? By an Athletic Department that had ties to the Atlantic 10? Are there some other gains for the University as a whole?
Really would like to know the whole story....But was mentioned does not look like much of a gain and no turning back now.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:00 am 
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Rambling0101 wrote:
I think we can all agree that the A10 is stronger conference than the valley top to bottom. We can argue should the Ramblers have moved, but no turning back now.

My concern is this: Did we exchange a 1 bid conference for a 1-2 bid conference?
Both Drake and VCU were 12 seeds; Dayton would have been in the NIT but chose not to play postseason, Bradley played in it.

So...1 bid for both leagues and 1 NIT bid for both leagues. Given the "strength" of the A10, I would have expected more.


Last year was an aberration more than anything. It was a historically bad A10 season compared to the prior 20+ seasons. I think A10 is more likely to get back on the MWC's level (which had four bids this year) than stay on the MVC's level. On 'average', I think conferences like the A10 and MWC will get 2-3 bids, while the MVC is likely to get one bid, with the occasional 2 bid year when the top team doesn't win in STL and has a great resume. History shows this to be true.

A10 schools spend A LOT more on basketball than do MVC schools. The biggest spender in the MVC (ISUr) would be 14th in the A10, just above LaSalle. So 14/15 of the A10 schools would be the top spender in the MVC. The average MVC MBB budget is right at $3m. The average A10 MBB budget is around $5.4m (with Dayton, SLU & VCU spending at a low end Big East school). By comparison, the average MWC budget is $4.1m. Money isn't the only thing, but it is certainly an indicator that A10 schools are more 'serious' about basketball and expect returns for their spending, which would include NCAAT bids.

I do think it's become harder for mid-majors to get bids. You need to get creative with non-conf scheduling and actually win those games. It seems like the top at-large MWC teams took the approach of scheduling top mid-majors, rather than chasing after P6 schools. That, plus a good MTE, gives you a chance to get some great "quad" wins and avoids getting dinged in the computer metrics for only beating a crappy team by 8 points.

I do think Arch Madness was more fun than the A10 tourney. But that could just be because I don't love Brooklyn.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:39 am 
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Dont forget the national TV games & exposure (how many games on USA did we have this year) along with the NIT games which are also televised nationally and while not the NCAA Tournament is a place we'd all have killed to have a regular shot at back in the mid 2000s.

We're in a demonstrably better place even if it doesn't feel like it because we enjoyed our time in the Valley and many of the Chicagoland residents have friends/family who are MVC affiliated and they can drive to those games/talk shit to their brother in law who went to Bradley.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:57 am 
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I imagine USA will be over soon as they just picked up the remaining contract from the now defunct NBC Sports Network. I wonder if it’s over now? If so where will the A10 former USA games go?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:16 am 
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The good news is -- this was, by all accounts, a "down year" for the Atlantic 10 Conference.


The bad news is -- this was, by all accounts, a "down year" for the Atlantic 10 Conference... and Loyola finished 15th out of 15.


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