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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 6:19 am 
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I will make a prediction...over the next 3 seasons, we do not achieve a better than .500 record in the A10 and Coach V is let go at that time. And I totally disagree that you won't get a good coach or become DePaul if you let him go.
LU has brand, a recent final 4 and sweet 16...last I checked that was some 44 years ago for DePaul (final 4) and 36 years ago (sweet 16). DePaul's mistake was (outside of Leito's 1st run) poor hiring...that is what knocked the program down.

Let's face it, nobody has really won at Loyola in a long time before PM's brief run and what a run it was. Now...where I could be really wrong in all this -- is that Coach V is similar to Fitz at NW Football. Takes a little time to get his feet under him and then builds his program to terrific sustainable success. Fitz was also very overwhelmed early on in his career. However, that is the exception not the rule (Stan Heath anyone?).


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:25 am 
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Rambling0101 wrote:
I will make a prediction...over the next 3 seasons, we do not achieve a better than .500 record in the A10 and Coach V is let go at that time. And I totally disagree that you won't get a good coach or become DePaul if you let him go.
LU has brand, a recent final 4 and sweet 16...last I checked that was some 44 years ago for DePaul (final 4) and 36 years ago (sweet 16). DePaul's mistake was (outside of Leito's 1st run) poor hiring...that is what knocked the program down.


I don't want to single you out or be a jerk, but this kind of thinking is wrong. It's dumb and harmful to the program.

When Moser was hired, I was living in Normal, Illinois where he'd been a losing coach for four years and was fired. So I was very much against the Moser hiring at Loyola. I tweeted when it happened that I was upset.

I got even more upset when Moser drove kids out of the program in his first year. As a result, Loyola set a Loyola AND Horizon League record (needlessly, in my opinion) for most conference games lost in a season in his first year. In his second year, he lost about five conference games by 3 points or less (I can't remember the talking point the Athletic Department press releases put out), which was supposed to show we were moving in the right direction, but to me (at the time) showed he was a shit-ass coach in crunch time.

In his third year, we joined the MVC, and even after the shitty 2011-12 and 2012-13, Moser's record managed to get worse. His players (the ones he recruited) did stupid things like go outside barefoot in -15 degree temperatures and some couldn't play because of that injury. No discipline. No athleticism. The big men were stiffs, and the guards were slow. No direction.

After year THREE at Loyola, Moser was 32-61 overall. He was 10-42 in conference games. In year THREE. Remember, he was hired after they fired a coach who was ABOVE .500 overall AND the year he was fired. Remember, he had five straight losing seasons at two different schools, and SEVEN straight losing seasons in conference play.

I hated the Moser hire until somewhere around the fourth game of season four (2014-15), where we beat UTSA on the road. I thought the defense we used, without any players taller than 6'7", was pretty ingenious. When we followed it up with a win at Kent State in the next game, that was the first time I believed that Moser could coach. Year FOUR.

Loyola had a brand before Moser's several excellent years, and we have a brand after. I personally never meshed with Moser's personality. He seemed like a used car salesman to me. But after a few games in YEAR FOUR of his Loyola coaching run and YEAR ELEVEN of a previously undistinguished career, I finally got enough evidence to realize he could coach.

I realized Coach Valentine knew how to coach last year-- his first year-- when he made changes to his early starting lineups to maximize his players' talents, energy, and mismatches. He showed the flexibility to change focus, pivot to players that weren't in the original plan, and learn during the season. I've watched a lot of college basketball, and the main thing we're struggling with this year is a gap in athleticism, speed and length between the MVC and A10.

Please, folks. Use your heads, be patient. Be sensible. We've changed conferences-- to a league that's more challenging, has higher budgets, recruits differently, values different skills, and requires different travel patterns. We've got a team where the entire roster had like seven total games of experience against any A-10 team coming into the year. Our roster only had about six players out of the 11 added to it when we knew we were going to the A-10-- two of them are one and done grad transfers, one (Edwards) was a portal transfer, the others are freshmen.

Next year we'll have Miles Rubin, an athletic, 6'10" rim protector from one of the best high school programs in the country. Alston will be back, and ready to pair some strategery with his high motor and physical talents. We'll have really promising, physical guards Jayden Dawson and Jalen Quinn as sophomores, bulked up a little more-- they've both shown great things as freshmen. Ben Schweiger is a really athletic and versatile player who will have an off-season to work on muscles, free throws, and defense. We'll probably go to the juco level and transfer portal to get some inside players with length and versatility. And folks...... I mean it.... I think Hutty will have a meaningful role next year. He has weaknesses, yes..... speed, hops, etc. But he has some things that a lot of other A-10 teams can't match-- sheer size, footwork, a soft touch from a big guy, ability to pass, ability to hit a three well enough to spread the defense.... Now I've got myself psyched up for next year....


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 11:26 am 
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Oh JCT…glass house much? How is making a prediction being a jerk? Ive read you bashing PM over the years - all I am doing is pointing out the obvious.

1) Drew had a talented and veteran team last year that he kept between the lines, got to the tournament. Great season.

This year - He has publicly tossed players under the bus and watched 1 formerly highly recruited player walk out the door mid-season. I said before and I’ll say it again…he ain’t ready.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 11:42 am 
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First, if I admit that I had a wrong impression or that things have changed over a period, that's not a glass house. That's an admission that I'd made an incorrect initial impression and made a change of view once there was more proof. I told you that I had a bad impression of Porter Moser from the start. You certainly haven't been on this site prior to November 2014 when I changed my view of his coaching abililty in the way I described in this post. You joined this site in January 2021.

Second, you missed the point I was trying to make.... That it takes several years to more accurately assess a coach's abilities. That's why almost all of them are given four year contracts. That's why so many of them are fired after four years, not two like you espouse.

Third, you've said he's "publicly tossed players under the bus"... who are you referring to? Were you around when Moser "publicly" named the players who had severe misbehavior incidents and suspended them publicly? Should he have been fired after year three? You would have said yes. Or it could have been for another reason?

I don't think I have to go on.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:35 pm 
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For old times sake, I was digging through old threads to make a similar point to JCT. As usual, he beat me to the point. But here’s one from 2013 anyway:

https://www.ramblermania.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=326

I think 2013 was as far back as this board goes (the old board was done away with when we switched to the MVC, if memory serves)

There were other threads over the years expressing frustration over Moser and players leaving. Including one just before the 2014-2015 season. The recruits who came in the year to replace some of the ones who left ended up being the Seniors on a Final Four team.

I also recall some concern and questions about whether Porter was the right guy after the end of 2016-2017 season, when Milton Doyle was graduating and it felt like we missed a window. That obviously wasn’t the case.

Does this all mean that everything will turn out and turn around exactly as it did starting in 14/15? Obviously not. But this panic and giving up on a coach in year two is, to take a phrase from a great 20th century philosopher….well it is giving me Deja Vu all over again.

I’m in for and in support of Drew until he gives me a solid reason not to. One down year where most of the team is new, and the conference is new on top of it all, is not such a reason for me.

Now let’s go beat the current runt of the many A-10 Rams


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 2:50 pm 
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PM year 3 vs Drew cannot be compared. No Final 4 or Sweet 16 that PM walked into, so no I would’ve never sought PMs firing.

Players that misbehave and are publicly named/suspended is a very different situation than Drew’s post gamers this year, I don’t need to delve into those as they’ve been covered amply in this forum.

What you’re missing is this:

I have always maintained that Drew will be a good coach someday, it just won’t be right here right now and Watson made a mistake in moving him 3 feet over.

If the leap to the A10 was designed to usher in the new era of Loyola, it has been an abject failure in year 1.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 12:19 am 
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I think there's a little bit of truth to what both of you are saying. Yes, Valentine took over after a stretch of Final Four and Sweet 16, with momentum that Moser was never even close to inheriting when he took over as head coach. Yes, this has been a failure of a season...no sugarcoating it, everything that could go wrong has gone wrong, and a great deal of that has to be put on Drew.

HOWEVER, calling for Valentine to be fired after two years is objectively crazy. He won the conference tournament and got us back into the tournament in his first year as head coach. Sure, it was a bunch of Moser's guys, but he did so nonetheless under a crazy amount of pressure. He's proven to be a good recruiter thus far, and by every account he is one of the hottest young coaches in the country. One bad year, in a new conference (one that WILL be a good move in the long run...down year nonetheless the A10 is objectively better with a greater chance of at-large bids than the MVC was and ever will be), with 11 new players, and we are going to write everything that he has done off?!? And start completely over?!? 0101, you even say you think Drew will be a good coach down the line. Do you really want to jeopardize losing that due to one poor season, with all of the extenuating circumstances that came with it? He's a young coach. Growing pains are some of the price you pay to bank on his massive potential.

Again, I am in no way excusing this season. It was a massive disappointment, and Drew has earned his fair share of criticism. Perhaps our expectations at the start of the year were too high (hindsight is 20/20), but nonetheless, this year was inexcusable. That being said, I absolutely believe that college coaches should get at least 4 years to build their own program, unless there is some crazy off-the-court issues (see: New Mexico State). Even if Drew had two crappy years to start (which he didn't, he won the freaking conference last year and took us to the Dance!!), I would push for at least one more year at the helm.

All of that to say...patience and perspective is key. Give Valentine a real chance. He knows what it takes to compete in the A10 now, and this offseason will be a big barometer to see if we are up to the task. If all goes right, we could be vastly, vastly improved next year. All it takes is some young guys taking a leap and a couple of transfer portal hits.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 11:11 am 
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I think most reasonable fans, regardless of their level of faith in Drew at this point, can agree on this: he's coming back next year. If he shows some improvement -- I'm thinking middle of the pack in the A10 at minimum -- he gets a year four. Year four he needs to at least sniff a tourney bid, or else HOT SEAT.

If next year is as bad as this year, definitely HOT SEAT, and I think it's reasonable for him to be fired if the vibes are still as undeniably weird as they have been this year.

We didn't build the program back from scratch, build a national brand, grow a devoted fan base, rabid student section, etc. just to throw all those things away. I hate the shaming of fans/students for not "sticking with the team" when they are a mess. If anything, fans/students went above and beyond this year in showing out despite the horrible, unfocused product on the court. Seasons like this are what makes fans tune out, like it or not, and we can't really afford another one. Eventually, people have better things to do.


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