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Toledo Preview and Game Thread -- 12/20/2016
https://www.ramblermania.net:443/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1793		 Page 5 of 5
Author:  ahunte1 [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Toledo Preview and Game Thread -- 12/20/2016
To contradict myself a bit...

We usually make up for our lack of offensive rebounds by forcing a ton of turnovers. Tonight Toledo only had 11. That was a huge factor over 40 minutes.

Obviously they came up with a big OR at the end of the game.

Positive side: I am loving Donte this year.
Author:  Blers [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Toledo Preview and Game Thread -- 12/20/2016
Ahunte I'm with you on Donte this year. He's shown a lot of fire and competitive spirit.

This rebounding stuff is so frustrating but there's not much we can do. Having Andres on the team would have been massive and i legit think if he was 3/4 as good as expected we could have a real shot at being undefeated at this point. We've got the offensive firepower to play with most teams but no one to really dominate on the boards. That was really the game in a nut shell. We also failed to force turnovers in the first half/capitalize on open shots during that 19-0 run.

I don't understand not putting Kirby in a bit longer to at least eat some space and grab a few boards, i understand the offense isn't their but would have liked to see him for longer than a minute... Tyson also had one minute and immediately got to the line, would like to see him spell a bit more...especially in the first when our guards shots weren't falling.

Also just to vent the refs these past two games have been RIDICULOUS. I don't know if it's because we're small so they are watching how physical we play or what but it's been atrocious. Between some of those offensive fouls we were called for and the odd calls on Richardson for playing...defense(???) I was extremely frustrated. It loosened in the second half (weird how we then forced ten of their eleven turnovers...) but the first half was abysmal in my opinion. Every time we started to get in rhythm a foul would be called on the other end.

The guys can hopefully rest up now and get ready for conference play. It's one game, learn from it and keep moving forward!


(RIP the 8 game winning streak 2016-2016)
Author:  brot4britu [ Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Toledo Preview and Game Thread -- 12/20/2016
WELL we are too little !! To state the obvious !! Despite this we will be fine but--
-------Ben must step up on offense
-------Whatever we have tail-wise on Defense down low is GONE--- So run the other guys (enemy) hard start to finish !!

Those two are problems--BEN will fix himself--The other==Maybe next year !!

We are do not forget a good tram !!
Author:  Scream [ Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Toledo Preview and Game Thread -- 12/20/2016
I was looking at the play-by-play of the end of the game and found some interesting clock management by the Toledo personnel:

01:47 LAYUP by Doyle 6 9 - 6 7
01:25 TIMEOUT TEAM

(Comment: 1:47 to 1:25 -they should have 8 sec to shoot but the shot clock showed 11)

01:15 MISSED JUMPER by SANFORD

(Comment: a 32 second possession)

01:15 REBOUND (OFF) by LAUF
00:52 TIMEOUT 30sec

(Comment: 1:15 to 0:52 - they should have 7 sec to shoot but the shot clock again showed 11)

00:42 3 PTR by WILLIAMS 7 2 - 6 7

So they took 10 sec to shoot the dagger that sealed the game. It was a 33 sec possession. We had them locked down totally until Williams got that shot off, so it is not accurate to say they would have shot earlier if the clock had been correct.

I am certain that the shot clock was at 11 both times because Mike Angelitis and I both commented on it.

I know some time runs off before a rebound is secured and the shot clock is activated, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't 4 seconds. I know the log may not be entirely accurate. And this is what you expect on the road. There are lots of reasons for any loss - like sustaining a 19-0 run in the first half - so you should never say the clock cost us the game. Still, it would have been interesting to see a shot clock violation give us the ball down by two with 0:45 left.

For the second game in a row, the team went through some really bad stuff mid-way through the first half. For the second game in a row, they responded to that adversity exactly as you would hope. There's lots of grit on this team; they are steady and workmanlike, almost unflappable. It wasn't enough to get the win last night but I am proud to be a fan of this team.
Author:  swellafelon [ Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Toledo Preview and Game Thread -- 12/20/2016
Would like to hear what ramblermgr9599 has to say about Scream's shot clock hanky panky insinuation.

Speaking for myself, I don't think the first instance Scream cites necessarily shows the shot clock operator did anything wrong. By rule the game clock continues to run following a made basket (except for the last minute of the second half). So if Milt's lay up came at 1:47, it might be that it took Toledo 3 seconds to inbound the ball, taking the game clock down to 1:44. The shot clock starts when the ball is inbounded (and is touched). So it would be legit for the shot clock to start at 1:44, meaning that Sanford's jumper at the 1:15 mark was timely.(29 sec. and not 32 sec.).

The sequence following Lauf's offensive rebound at the 1:15 mark is much more problematic, and looks on its face to be a case of shot clock home cookin'.
The only way to really tell is by reviewing the video. The ESPN text play-by-play account is too imprecise.
Author:  25yearstreak [ Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Toledo Preview and Game Thread -- 12/20/2016
One of the many reasons I enjoy having Swella on this board (his first rate sarcasm is one of the main reasons) is that he is so smart and can figure all of this out. I can only scratch my head in amazement at his intellect and acuity displayed. Thanks for providing the explanation to thus debunk this conspiracy theory,
But now I am forced to ask him: was there a fourth bullet at Dealy Plaza in Dallas? Seriously have you seen the video showing the shot that missed as it tumbles past JFK's head?
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