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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Issues
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:46 am
Posts: 74
Such a mystery but Kaifes's injury or something else has changed his stroke. Maybe in the corner in his fav spot, but still have to move him down. In a Donte/Miami type 3, I go Clemons, Williamson (just a hunch) Norris, Hall (another unsubstantiated hunch). Overall I put them in this order:

Clemons
Norris
Williamson
Kaifes
Hall (he's gotta start hitting a few???)
Kennedy (doesn't seem to have a natural 3 stroke)
Welch
Uguak


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Issues
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:29 am
Posts: 438
This team reminds of the 2018 team in terms of issues shooting the 3 heading into Arch Madness. Heading in we were fighting for conference title, there was talk of needing to win Arch Madness to get into the Dance, and we struggled a bit offensively. Clayton in particular was struggling a bit, but really the whole team was not shooting the 3 good.

We got to Arch Madness and had a tight first game and as tourney went on we got progressively better shooting the 3 and playing offense to the point we blew out a pretty good Illinois State team. I think the back to backs took their toll, especially since we had to play the 3 next best teams and Bradley on the road. Physical and mental fatigue caught up to us. The 8 days off were nice, but it is hard after a layoff like that to snap right back into it. Now with the pressure release of having the conference fight over, knowing we are going to get a bid, and having gotten the two SIU games out of the way to get back to playing basketball, I expect we will play much better offensively and I expect the 3s to drop more consistently. We don't have to be lights out offensively to be a tough out with our defense, but we do need to be a little bit better to make real noise in the Dance.

As far as Coop is concerned, he just doesn't look right, and I swear it looks like he's gained weight since the season started. I am beginning to wonder if he is hurt and maybe not participating as much in practice. It will be interesting to see if anything comes out after the season on this. With or without Coop, we have plenty of guys who can make 3s (Clemons, Norris, Williamson, Hall, Aher and even Kennedy).


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Issues
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:05 pm 
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Location: Livin in the middle, between the two extremes
It seems like Kaifes has been on the floor more as the conference season has gone on (in meaningful minutes, not like other games where we were up 20+). Maybe that’s a good sign that he’s showing improvement in practice.

The only one that really concerns me is Big Frank. He’s been dressed for games for a while now, but no playing time. We don’t know the story, but my pessimistic side has me concerned that (a) his injury hasn’t progressed enough to be able to play, going on around 4-5 months, or (b) it’s understood that he’s planning to transfer. Again, it’s just pure speculation, but Krut going down to injury, and him not seeing the floor at all even after that, makes me wonder.

As painful as the last couple Arch Madness experiences have been, the unexpected great performances from Kaifes (two years ago) and Welch (last year, in limited minutes), give me hope for the offense. Someone usually steps up, it’s just a question of who and when.


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Issues
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:11 pm 
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01grad wrote:
It seems like Kaifes has been on the floor more as the conference season has gone on (in meaningful minutes, not like other games where we were up 20+). Maybe that’s a good sign that he’s showing improvement in practice.

The only one that really concerns me is Big Frank. He’s been dressed for games for a while now, but no playing time. We don’t know the story, but my pessimistic side has me concerned that (a) his injury hasn’t progressed enough to be able to play, going on around 4-5 months, or (b) it’s understood that he’s planning to transfer. Again, it’s just pure speculation, but Krut going down to injury, and him not seeing the floor at all even after that, makes me wonder.


I wonder if they are maybe thinking he has missed so much time that they are hoping to red shirt him to get another year out of him. I know a big athletic body for the NCAA would be great. Hutson has done a decent job when pressed into game action, but he is not as mobile or athletic as Frank. Frank could prove a boost, but he has no game action this year and practice time just isn't enough to get you ready. What I do love about Frank is his attitude. Whether he is playing or on the bench, he is always into the game and you seen him standing a lot on sidelines during the games cheering. If Krut doesn't come back, Frank, Welch and Hutson will give us some big bodies, along with the grad transfers, assuming they still come now that Ivy league is allowing players to play a 5th year.


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Issues
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:19 pm 
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I think the team has been playing not to lose instead of playing to win after that Drake blowout. Don't ask me to justify this it is the vaguest hunch lol. I hope now that the pressure to win games that have been more or less foregone conclusions is over they play a little looser on O.


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Issues
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:45 pm 
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I agree with Mr. Miller that it looks like we are playing not to lose, and like we're not having much fun in the process. Too much grind; not enough grin.

To loosen the guys up I would like to see Porter run a couple of fun plays early:

1. An alley oop lob for a dunk off a back screen to Aher or Marquise. We used to run this play at least once a game in years past, but it seems to have been put on the shelf the last couple seasons. Dust it off and let it rip!

2. Have Krut shoot a 3 from the top of the key or deep corner. Just for the hell if it. This would send a psychological message to the team that it's okay to launch one and miss. Life goes on. And if Krut connects so much the better!


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Issues
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:44 pm 
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swellafelon wrote:
2. Have Krut shoot a 3 from the top of the key or deep corner. Just for the hell if it. This would send a psychological message to the team that it's okay to launch one and miss. Life goes on. And if Krut connects so much the better!


People forget he shot 33% from three as a sophomore!

Also totally agree with the “wheel” lob play. Porter used to pull that out almost once a game for a good stretch there, haven’t seen it in a couple years


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Issues
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:59 pm 
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I had heard early in the season that they were close to shutting down Kaifes due to the injury not healing well. so there might be some validity to his physical situation effecting his performance.....Big Frank is really a mystery...Hutson has showed promise over short bursts but Frank has 3 years in , and can be dominating....wish we knew the story.....I think both , injury or transfer are feasible. I was really hoping he was going to be a 10-12 minute contributor this year


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Issues
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:37 pm 
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I was at that SIU game in 19, I saw Krut make that 3. He can do it.

I've been wondering about Big Frank the past couple of weeks. I expected him to be back sooner, we may not see him until next season. We really could have used him this year. Welch is a great player, but he is a forward, not a center. Big Frank has the muscle and experience that Hutson is lacking.


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Issues
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:55 pm 
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Location: Chicago, IL
goramblers2011 wrote:
I gave myself Sunday to enjoy the win, be positive on the board and reminisce about the incredible four year run Loyola is on.

Now down to business. After our 27 point blowout in game 1 @Drake, our offense has really hit a wall. Thought it'd be good to centralize discussions on the offense in one thread. I have a few observations. I am a kenpom subscriber but certainly not an analytic savant. The below thoughts are mostly just from watching the game.

1. "Tightening" of the rotation. Welch was a really key contributor in the first half of the season. Showed he could hit from deep and had some nifty moves downlow. His defense was not bad, but he was sometimes exposed trying to defend the other team's big man. His minutes and contributions have seemingly dropped off. Similar to Hebb who did not play at all (I don't think) in the SIU series. He provided a bit of a spark plug in some games with active defense and the ability to drive to the hoop. Seems like we are now set in a 7 man rotation with the starting 5 plus Quise/Hall...with sparing minutes for Welch, Kaifes and Hall.

2. Backdoor cuts. Our offense had a ton of pretty cuts / motions coupled with really nifty passing (including from Krut, of course) that lead to easy layups. It seems opposing teams have picked up on that and are not overselling a big, cutting off any passing lanes before they exist.

3. Hall/Uguak/Welch. Each of these three guys have shown the ability to step up for a double digit game on any given night. After Hall as put into a sub role, he responded super well and kind of carved out a new roll as a post-up guy. He is strong, quick and athletic--great for exposing mismatches. However, last few games, he seems to have gotten away from really trying to back guys down. His 3 point shot is so off this year, unfortunately, that I think he really needs to go back to keying in downlow. Similarly, Uguak is a guy who can really expose mismatches--length and quickness very few have. He really looked good in game 1 vs Drake as they tried to guard him with Sturtz. Seems like the last few games, he has regressed a bit as neither his 3 point shot is falling nor is he able to expose defenders. Welch, already talked about his decrease in minutes. His 3 point shot from the top of the arc seemed automatic at the beginning of the year--he has gone cold from there.

4. Drive, drive, drive. We have a few guys who have shown they can beat defenders off the dribble and consistently get to the hoop (Kennedy, Norris, Hebb). Only one of those guys (Kennedy) has really shown the ability to finish once down there. With the 3 point ball not falling, I think we need to try driving more--Kennedy to finish or dish to Krut and Norris to pull up for a mid-range jumper (where he has been deadly) or find Krut.

5. The 3 ball. Obviously, the biggest issue, and the most troubling / inexplicable, has been the complete demise of our 3 point shooting. We have multiple guys on the roster who should be comfortable 36+% shooters (Norris, Williamson, Clemons, Kaifes, Kennedy). And we looked the part leading up to the last 4 games. But then it just fell off a cliff (other than Norris and to a lesser extent, Clemons). With a big guy as talented as Krut, when our 3's are falling, we are near impossible to defend. Feed him, and he will either beat your defender 1v1 OR you can try to crash him and he will inevitably find the open guy leading you to chase the ball on the perimeter until we have an open 3. But when the 3's aren't falling, you just need to crash on Krut as you do not need to worry about getting killed from deep. Our advantage on offense disappears.

Interested to hear thoughts from others. These are obviously some "ramblings" of someone who has yelled at the TV out of pure frustration the last four games. Our defense can keep us in a battle with just about any team, and even win Q4 type games vs Valpo and SIU, but if the offense isn't there, our March will be short-lived. I trust Porter and the guys to figure it out. First move should be to stick with what worked early on--then, if the 3's STILL aren't falling, we need some type of backup plan. I think driving with Norris/Kennedy and feeding Krut or cutters is the best we can do.


I have no idea why Porter has dropped Welch and Hebb’s minutes, our depth is our strength. Why would you stop doing something when it is working? It makes no sense. They’ll see increased playing time at arch madness but it’s mind boggling. I agree with using Kennedy to drive to the basket. His level of athleticism and finishing ability is an easy option to trust when nothing is working. I’m not sure I agree with Norris driving, I’m tired of watching him getting rejected at the end of games. Driving then dishing it out or pulling up for a mid range? Definitely.


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